Episode Transcript
Speaker 2 00:09 You're listening to fresh air community radio, K FAI 90.3, FM HD, Minneapolis st. Paul, and on the web at <inaudible> dot org for the next 60 minutes, you'll be hearing the wave project KFH weekly community access hour. If you'd like to produce your own one hour radio program, information on applying can be found at kfh.org/wave project. The views expressed on this program are those of the person's expressing them and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of fresh airs incorporated. Board of directors, volunteers, or staff.
Speaker 1 01:00 Good morning, everyone. My name is Aliyah Hodge, and I'm here in the studio with Jasper, either cafe. Um, I am a former PSCO student, the current president, and a founder of people for PSEL in this installment of the wave project. We'll delve into Minnesota educational opportunity gap. And the work people for PSCO is doing to get information in the hands of students and families. And at the end, we'll be able to hear from PSU alumni, Josh, on his experience. So for those who are joining us for the first time, people for PSCO is a statewide nonprofit made up of current students, lawmakers, parents, PSEL alums, like me, um, and other PSEL advocates and our student members come from over 40 different high schools throughout Minnesota. And the focus of people for PSCO is threefold. First to promote the PSCO program among families, students, educators, and the general public through a variety of means including obviously doing radio shows like this, uh, um, and to encourage the refinement expansion and improvement of the PSCO program by providing information to legislators and other policy makers, and lastly, to encourage greater equity and access to PSCO for students throughout Minnesota, throughout these efforts, people for PSCO, we hope to reduce disparity gaps between students of color, low income students and rural students and their counterparts.
Speaker 1 02:20 Um, people for PSCO also strives to increase the number of high school students participating in concurrent enrollment programs throughout the state. Um, and another quick refresher for folks who might not be super familiar with what PSCO is. Um, so the post secondary enrollment options program or PSCO for short, um, it allows high school students to enroll in courses taught by college instructors, either on campus or online and more recently legislation was passed allowing 10th grade students to enroll in PSCO. So that means if a student earns a C um, or higher in our career technical education course, um, then they're eligible to take additional CTE courses while in 10th grade. So obviously in essence, PSCO gives high school students the ability to fulfill high school requirements while also accumulating college credits that can be put towards a future major. You know, I really want to highlight the fact that PSCO allows high school students to earn college credit at absolutely no cost to them, which means tuition textbooks required.
Speaker 1 03:28 Course materials are free to the student. In fact, there are even funds available to help pay transportation expenses for PSCO students, for families who are at, or below the poverty, sorry, level as determined by the federal government. That is something that we at people for PSCO. We worked the last legislative session to have that change to all low income students or students who qualify for free and reduced price lunch, but because of the huge increase that we were asking for it, didn't it, unfortunately it didn't pass last year, but that doesn't mean we're going to stop pushing for it because it's the right thing to do. Um, you know, a little personal story. So I graduated from high school with 58 college credits, um, and that from the U of M, which allowed me to then get my bachelor's degree at literally no cost to me, like I didn't have any debt leaving.
Speaker 1 04:15 Um, my bachelor's degree program at the U and I was 19 when I graduated with my bachelor's and then I got my masters from the Humphrey school at 21, that one was not free. Um, and so Josh, how many credits did you graduate high school with? I graduated actually with a degree and a 66 credits from MCTC, which allowed me to graduate from the university of Minnesota also debt free at 20 years old. See that's that? I think that's a true Testament to how life changing and how powerful, you know, the program is. Um, so before we get into our next part, I want to take a really quick break. Um, but I also want to remind our listeners that you can find more about the work we're doing, or if you want to contact us and say, Hey, you know, my kid would love to hear about PSCO. Can one of the alumni speak to them? You can absolutely contact us. Our website is WW dot people for psco.org. That's all one word, no spaces, no underscores www.peopleforpsco.org. So after this short break, we'll, we'll begin diving into the data and then discuss the long work that we have to do as a state. So stay tuned.
Speaker 3 05:22 <inaudible> my name is Cheryl White Hawk. I'm <inaudible> from Northwest Wisconsin, but I've spent most of my life in the Minneapolis st. Paul Metro area. I have a few ideas about how we can find relief and find inspiration during these hard times, going out into nature, any kind at, in any way, even people in the city can do that. Spend time by a tree on mother earth, going to where there's water. We feel very close to creator when we're near water <inaudible>. So I'll make which everyone, um, my prayers are with everybody during this hard and difficult time that we can hopefully use as our culture to get through.
Speaker 0 06:09 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 06:14 This message is supported by a grant from the Minnesota department of health
Speaker 1 06:20 Super well, good morning, everyone. And welcome back to the wave project in this part of the program, we'll be discussing a little bit about Minnesota's, um, educational opportunity gap. Um, so as folks know around the U S and the world, um, on May 25th, we witnessed yet another tragic killing of an unarmed black man in Minneapolis. And while sadly, you know, or shamefully, um, horrific incidents like the murder of George Floyd, aren't new, the injustice exposed in this tragedy revealed and reflects the injustice that exists at nearly every level in our society, including education, governor wall stated that Minnesota consistently ranked highly for our public schools for innovation and opportunity and happiness. If you're white, if you're not, the opposite is true, systematic racism must be addressed if we're to secure justice, peace and order for all Minnesotans. So let me give, you know, our listeners, let me give you guys like an idea of what this looks like.
Speaker 1 07:19 So in the 2018, 19 school year, 66% of white students met or exceeded standards for proficiency as measured by the MCs in reading as compared to 34% of black students and native students, 38% of Latin X students and 54% of Asian students. And then if we look at graduation, so in that same, you know, 2018, 19 school year, the four year graduation rate for black and Latin X students was 69%, which is compared to 88% for white students, 87% for Asian students and 50%, um, for native American students. So why, why, why, why do these disparities exist? Like what does this mean? Uh, well, I think, you know, there is some research that shows that, you know, as students of color proceed through school system, um, the school system, um, the overwhelming dominance of, you know, your American perspectives, the leads, many students who are disengaged from their academic learning, you know, kids, aren't seeing themselves reflected in a lot of what we're learning about in school.
Speaker 1 08:22 Um, and I think, you know, we don't have to go super far to actually see this, like, think about history, think about the history classes that you took in high school, and that, you know, if you have kids, your kids are taking, um, so a researcher, Christina Sleeter, um, she's, she's analyzed about a dozen or so, um, textbooks, um, history textbooks, and found that the texts make racism and discrimination seem like things of the past and say little to nothing about con contemporary, race relations, racism, racial issues. And usually throughout these textbooks, they use greatly sanitized terms. Um, when we talk about racism, you know, for example, I remember in high school, uh, when we talked about the civil rights movement, we learned Martin Luther King Rosa parks, and I have a dream. Absolutely. That's it, you know, we didn't learn about freedom writers. We didn't learn about, you know, citizens.
Speaker 1 09:11 You didn't learn about all the work that, you know, white allies in the North helped us with. Like, you know, we didn't talk about that. Um, you know, so in other words, what we're seeing in a lot of our history books, um, you know, people of color, um, are really added in a more contributions fashion, um, to the predominantly Euro American narrative. Um, and if we can also look at that as it's on a state level, so it's also measured in our own state standards, you know, as everyone knows, state standards are set by the state to represent the minimum requirements for K-12 students, um, achievement. And, you know, if we're thinking about history, um, citizenship, government, economics, geography, and history, like if we're thinking about social studies, so the Minnesota social studies standards, um, are organized by standard and benchmark, the benchmarks are where more specific skills or content that students are supposed to learn are identified.
Speaker 1 10:05 And the standards, you know, are more overarching and broad. Um, so there's 442 specific standards, um, for K-12. And so here we out, here's some facts about those standards. The word discrimination appears once, and that's in the eighth grade, the word racist is not in any of those benchmarks. The word racism appears twice once in the grade six, and once in the high school, nine 12. And in both instances, they refer to the time period of 1870 to 1920. You know, we know that racism is prevailing even in society today. Um, the word injustice never appears, and while slavery appears more often, you know, it appears seven times it's referred to as either one reason for the civil war or as an economic system. You know, I think the lack of specific specificities, sorry about historical racist roots in our countries in the standards is really disheartening, you know, and on top of that astounding, you know, and it leaves me at to ask how can we expect our students to succeed all of our students to succeed, you know, and have a strong sense of self and self confidence and identity when we're barely teaching them their history.
Speaker 1 11:17 You know, I think education as much as we like to call it the great equalizer, it also doesn't exist in a vacuum. Um, you know, governor walls, like I said before, he stated that, you know, systematic racism must be addressed and to address it in education, we have to look at all the factors that contribute to disparities. You know, obviously the one that we see obviously playing out right now is our criminal justice system, you know, and if we want to look at that on a smaller school level, we gotta look at suspensions. Um, we have to look at the fact that kids of color are disproportionately suspended from school, with black kids being the most group that suspended the most, you know, um, out of the almost four 49,500 disciplinary actions in the 20 1819 school year, black students made up about 38% of those suspensions.
Speaker 1 12:07 That's 40, that's almost 40% of suspensions for a group of children that make up 11% of the state, um, as compared to white students who make up 35% of disciplinary actions. But, you know, and as we know where they account for about 65% of the state, you know, and when you think about that, those are all missed instruction days for kids. Those are days that kids aren't learning, um, when they're suspended and it doesn't even fix the actual problem of why a kid had to get kicked out in the first place. Um, you know, it's a temporary fix for a more, you know, a larger problem. Um, you know, we also have to look at the fact that only 4% of teachers in Minnesota identify as people of color, you know, and the amount of school leaders are of color are even less, you know, this being said, we have to, you know, start investing in, grow your own programs and looking at alternative pathways to licensure.
Speaker 1 13:00 Um, you know, we also have to look at the fact that students of color are often dissuaded from rigorous courses. Um, I remember when I was in high school, I wanted to take, um, Japanese as a PSEL student at the U of M. And I had a teacher who told me to stick to English. You know, obviously I didn't listen to her. Um, I ended up minoring Japanese in Japanese. Um, but like, these are just stories that countless of kids of color have heard. Um, and then we also have to look at housing and employment systems that don't provide opportunities for people of color to accumulate. Well. Um, I think there was a, you know, a Brookings Institute Institute, um, report that said at 171,000, um, the net worth of a typical white family, it's nearly 10 times greater than that of a black family, which had a net worth of 17,020 16.
Speaker 1 13:53 You know, like let's, let's repeat that 10 times the amount, you know, and we know that, you know, income and wealth are, can affect the extent in which parents can invest in their own children. You know, and I'm not saying that all these systems will be changed overnight, but this is a lot of work that we as a state have to do. Um, if we're serious about closing these gaps, um, you know, as an organization, people for PSCO, you know, it was a reason I really started this, um, seeks to actively disrupt systems of oppression and racism and push back against what many call the traditional, you know, high school experience, you know, and I'm not naive enough, and I'm not saying that PSCO can solve every issue in society. Um, but you know, it has a profound effect on high school graduation rates and college persistence, you know, to bolster this, you know, I want to point out, um, you know, highlight, um, 2013, uh, 2012, 2013 study, the MDE published, you know, tracking the difference in high school graduation rates for a student who didn't participate in PSCO versus a student who took one or more, uh, concurrent, uh, courses.
Speaker 1 15:02 Um, so it's PSCO or CIS. Um, so for white students that didn't participate in PSCO, their graduation rate, um, was 85% compared to 98%, um, which was for a student that participated in one PSCO course. So that was a jump of about 13%. And for black students, the graduation rate was 58% versus 88% for Asian students. The graduation rate was 78% versus 96% native American students, 49% versus 88% and Latino students, 59% versus 92%. You know, I think overall these gains aren't insignificant and, you know, they show the tremendous impact that taking even one PSCO or concurrent enrollment course has on a student. You know, I also want to point out, you know, I talked about college persistence, so I want to point out academic momentum. So academic momentum is a perspective that suggests that the speed in which a student initially progresses through college significantly affects their likelihood of completing a degree.
Speaker 1 16:03 Um, so in layman's term, the faster you start this, you know, the more likely you are to get this done. Um, I mean, I saw that definitely with my life, you know, being able to start college while I was in high school, um, you know, not only did that save a bunch of money, it saved time. I think I, I went to the other day to, you know, present to a board about PSCO when someone, you know, asked like, Oh, well, if two year college becomes free and available to everyone, will that affect PSCO? And I was like, no, because there are a lot of kids who need, who don't have the time that they need to be earning a wage while they're in high school.
Speaker 1 16:41 And I know that was, you know, that was something that I had to deal with. Um, so like I said, academic momentum is an effect separate from, you know, um, academic preparation. Like, you know, if you're taking AP AP like college prep classes and, you know, family's socioeconomic status, you know, I also think it's important to note that participation in the NPSL in that program, um, has gradually increased over time. You know, we've, we, the program has increased by 25% between the fiscal year, 2010 and 2018 and enrollment by low income students has grown by 46% and now accounts for almost 23% of, um, participants. Additionally, students of color participating in PSCO have increased by 61% since 2010 accounting for 26% of total participation. And although the percentages of students of color have increased significantly, these percentages still remain lower than the overall statewide, um, percentages of students of code in the state, uh, which is 30%, um, as of last year, you know, so why PSU?
Speaker 1 17:48 I feel like if you've heard this show, you've heard me talk about this a million times. Um, so besides saving families, thousands of dollars, why should PSCO be something that the state priority, um, hold on 2015, the Minnesota legislature enacted legislation, setting a target that 70% of Minnesota adults age 25 to 44 will have a ton of post secondary certificate or degree by 2025. So that's in like five years you guys, so we've, we've gotta, we've gotta work on that. Um, and in order to meet this educational attainment goal of 70% for all racial and ethnic groups, which no group is at right now, I might add, um, Minnesota needs approximately 144,000 additional Minnesotans age, 25 to 40 to complete their first educational credential. You know, and like I said, this could be either a certificate or a degree, you know, and it is the viewpoint of people for PSCO that this is a great way to get started on this. Um, I know I put a lot on everyone right now and a lot to think about. Um, so when I returned from this break, I'll quickly discuss the work that, um, people for PSCO is doing and how folks can get involved.
Speaker 4 19:00 The Cedar cultural center is pleased to announce the launch of the Cedar public access channel with interactive concerts, discussions, interviews, archival recordings, educational programs, and more all planned and produced by artists, in collaboration with the Cedar every other Thursday at seven 30 tuned into the secret public access channel on the Cedars, Facebook or YouTube for a unique live stream or recorded premiere. The seeder public access channel provides an online platform for artists to present independently produced low cost and inspiring content. That's unique to the artist's voice, the Cedar public access channel every other Thursday at seven 30 on the Cedars, Facebook or YouTube for a unique live stream or recorded premiere.
Speaker 1 19:46 Welcome back everyone. Um, so I just want to take this time to quickly go through the work that people for PSCO that is PSCO, meaning post-secondary enrollment options, um, has been engaging and to close opportunity gaps. So in addition to, you know, tabling specific school and career affairs and presenting at, you know, local boards, you know, and parent organizations, um, and being on radio shows and being on television. Um, we also worked with the Humphrey school on a capstone project to examine, you know, the racial and socioeconomic gaps in participation of the program. And then they gave us a plan as well of how we can best address that as a, you know, a small, um, nonprofit, um, you know, and last year, um, we worked on having two important pieces of legislation passed. So first was policy equity for PSCO S T sorry, for PSCO students taking online courses.
Speaker 1 20:40 Um, so before colleges could limit the amount of, um, online courses, a student can take, um, we found that as a barrier for rural students and for low income students who, you know, weren't able to get transportation reimbursed. Um, so now you can take as many online courses as, you know, the regular matriculated students can. Um, and then we also, uh, had a modification requiring high schools to disseminate, updated PSCO information to students and families at a date falling in line with their next course or next year course registration. Cause what we had found, you know, some schools were sharing information about PSCO in March and then the U of M their application opens in February. So that's not super helpful for kids. Um, you know, and, you know, we had some priorities this year, but, you know, due to, you know, the novel virus, uh, we didn't get most of them done, but you know, we're going to show up next session and we're gonna, we're still gonna push for, um, you know, greater equity for our kids.
Speaker 1 21:36 Um, so also I do want to highlight that in the past this past fall, um, we were also recognized by the waltz administration for our work, as it relates to PSCO. Um, we actually got a certificate, um, from the governor's office about that. Um, and last month we hosted a PSCO information session, um, with college advisors from the U of M finishing trades Institute, North Hennepin tech and st. Paul college. We also had a few high school, um, principals on that call to, to talk about what PSEL looks like from their perspective. And then we had alumni of the program and current PSCO students who were available to answer questions for, um, the parents and the students that did participate, you know, and, you know, because we know that information is a huge barrier to PSCO. Um, we're planning on having another one of these events on the 29th of June.
Speaker 1 22:26 So Mark your calendars. Uh, so for those who are interested in registering for this event, you know, I would suggest checking our website on the 21st and then you can have all the registration forms and that information, um, you know, once again, our website is www dot people for PSCO that's P as in Peter, S as in Stacy, E as in Eleanor and O as in oliver.org. And I am joined by Joshua Hodge, a former PSCO student say, hi, Joshua fans. This is Joshua Hudge. All right. So let's start with some indifferent projections, if you can start with telling me, you know, obviously we know your name, um, where you did PSCO and where you went to high school already. So I was a st. Louis Park, high school student, and I participated in go Orioles and I participate in PSU at MCTC, which is Minneapolis community and technical college.
Speaker 1 23:21 Super. So let's just jump right into our questions. So why did you decide to participate in the PSCO program? Well, first you were my sister, so I definitely was going to follow directly in your footsteps, but also because I felt like PSA was just the best choice for me in high school. I really need more rigor in my courses as well as have a schedule that really fit my needs. Sounds good. Sounds good. So how did you, um, how, like, how would you categorize your experience with the program? You know, both the good and the bad, you know, things that should be improved. I'd say my overall experience with the program was amazing and very positive. Um, PSU allowed me to try a multitude of different classes. Uh, when I first started PSCO, I actually was a nursing student and I switched to biology and then I'm actually graduating with my degree in communications before I even graduated from high school.
Speaker 1 24:13 Um, that's impressive. Thank you. Um, PSA was just a great program because it also allowed me to create my own schedule, which I needed to work while go to school. So even from 16 and allowed me to just have a really nice schedule that allowed me to go to school when I could go to school and work when I had to work. No, I totally get that. I know when I did PSCO, initially I went in and I was like, I'm going to study neuroscience and I'm going to be a doctor, obviously, that didn't happen. Um, and that didn't happen for me either, you know, and then after neuroscience, I want to do psychology. And then after psychology, I wanted to do sociology. And then I finally landed in political science when I was undergrad. And then after that, I was like, Oh, I'm going to become a lawyer.
Speaker 1 24:53 I'm going to go to law school. That didn't happen either guys. And then I ended up studying, you know, I got my master's in education policy and, um, community economic development. Um, so yeah, it definitely changes a lot what, you know, what you plan on studying and then actually what you end up studying, cause your passions change. But that's what makes PSC a graded allows all students to actually follow their passions. And especially since it's a free program and allows students to do so from a much younger age. Absolutely. So how would you, you know, how would you compare PSCO to, like, I know you took AP, um, like how would you compare the two programs? And if you think about the rigor or like differences, I'd say one of the main differences is just the diversity in coursework that you're actually allowed to take since PSU is at a college or university, they have many, many more courses than your high school could offer for AP or IB.
Speaker 1 25:43 And since it's taught in a college setting, the actual discussions themselves are more intuitive to what you're actually learning. So it just gives them more, more rich experience in your educational process. <inaudible> that? That makes complete sense. So how, how would you, you know, when you talk about a lot of students I've heard from, you know, they're like, Oh, we don't want to lose the high school's experience. So how did you maintain connection with your friends in high school? Um, and just the high school culture while also, you know, working on your AA. So while I was also in high school, um, and doing PSCO, I always made it a point to come back and see my friends as often as possible, still participate in all school events, which PSCO definitely allows you to do, just because you're in PSCO. Do not think that you can't participate in high school events and spoiler pause, judge.
Speaker 1 26:29 I just got to let the listeners know that if your school doesn't let you participate in, um, you know, prom and other extracurricular events, that's against the law. So let them know that they can't do that. Yes, you will not do you're barred from participating anything like I, myself, you're still participating in sports too while you're doing PSCO. And also it's a great way to encourage your friends to once you are a student to join the PSCO program because PSU is for every student. Absolutely. You know, I think, I know you had a friend, you will encourage your friends to join PSCO, um, even while they were in, um, their senior year of high school. Yes, it is. PSU allows you to participate junior or senior year. So if you've gained, began as a junior, you can also tell your friends to participate senior year as well.
Speaker 1 27:12 Absolutely. So is there anything that you would change about the program? I would just say the information available for the program itself. I feel like PSCO should be pushed to all students throughout the entire state. Even if you take one PSCO course and it's not for you, that's totally fine. But I feel like all students should have the option and availability to take part in this program. Absolutely. And I feel like sometimes the narrative, it tells us that like, well, if you're not in the top 1% of students, you can't participate in PSCO. And like, I actually found that when I was in high school, I wasn't in the top 1%, but you know, I was still a pretty good student, but I actually did better in PSCO than I was doing in high school, even with the improved rigor of coursework. Wow. I think it just, you know, scheduling probably just works a little better for some students.
Speaker 1 27:59 Um, so another thing students and parents actually ask about a lot, um, our supports. So were there any, uh, groups, um, or, you know, support networks, uh, for PSCO students at MCTC, you know, did you get to talk with your counselor often? Like how did that go? I feel like the counseling office at MCTC was great for PSCO students. We had two counselors that just directly oversaw all PSCO students and they were available to come and speak at any time, as well as the professors at MCTC also were very knowledgeable about the program as well. And we're more than happy and willing to talk to you whenever you needed to. Nice, nice. I gotta, I gotta hype the, you, uh, as a, as a gopher. Um, I remember that not only do we have really like four or five BSCO counselors at the U of mainly because we have so many kids true.
Speaker 1 28:47 Um, there's also the PSCO student association, you know, and they work and they not only have get togethers and gatherings for PSCO students. You know, if you're new to college, it's so intimidating. Cause you're, I was 15 when I first started my first day, you know, and it's like, I don't know anyone who's 19 or 20. Um, so they really allowed you to have a community of people. Um, they also had pizza parties and other, you know, really, really fun events like that. Um, so Josh, I want to ask you, um, you know, what are you doing now and what are some of your future goals? Well, currently I work at Hennepin County. I graduated last year from the university of Minnesota's. We'll also go, go first with my degree in psychology. Um, right now I'm beginning to study for the GRE to take this fall so I can return to school, hopefully again at the university of Minnesota to study our business finance as well as marketing at the Carlson school.
Speaker 1 29:40 Nice, nice. Um, that, that is really, really great to hear. So why would you recommend PSCO? I'd recommend PSCO to all students again, as I said before in the state of Minnesota, because PSCO not only helps you save money, it helps you discover what you actually want to do as someone who has changed their major multiple times, um, PSU allowed, it allowed me to have the time to do so as well as create a schedule that actually fit my needs as a student. That is awesome. Well, thank you so much, Josh. Um, thanks so much for sharing your experience with the program. And I know we're drawing to a close, so I still want to reiterate, um, that any listeners that are interested in learning more about the PSCO program or people for PSCO that is people F O R P S E O as in Peter, um, Stacy, Eleanor, and Oliver, um, dot org, you know, they should visit our website. Let me say it again. www.peopleforpsco.org. Um, you know, we're always looking to partner with community organizations, so feel free to message us and we can absolutely present. We'll bring our students, we'll bring our alum, um, and we'll, you know, observe social distancing rules and math, um, you know, for a free presentation about PSCO. Um, so once again, I just want to thank everyone at KFH and our listeners. Um, and thank you again for joining us this morning on the wave project,
Speaker 5 30:59 You've been listening to the wave project cafes, weekly community access hours. If you would like to produce your own one hour radio program information on applying can be found at cafe.org/wave project, the wave project it's anything you want it to be, stay tuned for Lovaas Del Pueblo.
